Charged with more than their crime?

“Completely agreee with 'Ihavajob' but this discussion was formed on comments from a pensioner asking why institutions such as prison seem to be excluded from the austerity knee-jerk reactions that most others (bankers, MPs, Millionaires etc. excluded) are being subjected to.

Are we not seeing the 'big and very unequal society' actually penalising the indiginous law abiding population and very few else who share these shores?

As for education, surely it should be free for all if it is free for any at all? Why should I have to commit armed robbery to avoid uni fees? It does not seem right somehow!

It's more than just a prison issue I suspect.”

“What I don't understand is that people complain about paying for prisons in the first place through their taxes and extend to complain about re educating offenders.

What would you rather, an offender not getting re educated and becoming a prolific offender or an offender that has turned their life around getting a job and contributing to society in a positive way?

I hear what your saying in your head, but not all people come out and re offend. There are a percentage that prison actually works for the individual and they turn their life around. So isn't it good for this percentage to be able to get educational funding or would it be best for them to continue with the the mixed up emotions they have and not change at all?

Ask yourself this if your son, daughter or close one took the wrong path and ended up in prison. Would you prefer for them to get educated through their time spent or go serve their time having not learnt.

Yes we have to pay for courses, housing etc but that's the way it is and has been for a very long time (more than likely longer before you and I was born) and no complaint is going to change it.”

“Why is there such a disparity between comments from those who claim to know prison and the more widely held perception of a prison with glass in the windows, free education, free food and a warm environment?

Is there genuinely no TV or no newspapers? How will inmates know how to vote when the EU changes our law then? Is there truly no education, no telephones, no good food? How does it cost the taxpayer so much then?

If I am wrong, then someone please say so. I am always happy to learn the other side of an argument.

I am not challenging how 'hard' it is in prison but at least prison is a good way of targeting the perpetrator. If anyone should pay for the crime; this is the person.

What I have been saying however is that it seems so unfair, so fundamentally wrong, to take from those who have not committed crimes and excuse those who have. It is almost as if criminals have greater 'human rights' than non-criminals. I am sure the same principles would apply to other parts of society also.”

“BS_Hater is talking about the 24 hour a day fear of being **** burgled by the older lags. Hardly the stuff of holiday camps. Not even Pontins when Jimmy Saville was making a guest appearence could be compared to the daily reality of nick.”

“Simply put a criminal generally has a direct victim (the individual/s the crime was committed against). Their is also a ripple effect where the crime affects those around the victim AND those around the criminal i.e. family, children, friends (who are as innocent as the victim) etc.
Would you be happy means testing a man, removing his assets and making his family and children suffer for his wrong doing (creating more victims).
The only possible good outcome from this would be less and shorter sentences for the majority of criminals who pose no threat to the public at large and should never be locked up in the first place.

Also before you make any comment go and visit a prison, believe me it is more than enough punishment. The big TV free gyms etc garbage you read on here does not exist, they are terrible inhuman and frightening places.

Do you know 200 young people under the age of 24 have died/committed suicide in prison during the last ten years? No of course you did not because its brushed under the carpet, what happens when an old person or two get slapped around in a care home? National news for days on end.

PRISON IS HELL, NOTHING MORE IS NEEDED.”

“I fear that this will be a discussion for many years to come. While we have encouraged laziness with unnecessary benefits and allowances and treat our criminals with more respect than they deserve and allow a very few to profit from the toils of others nothing will change.
That's the 'democracy' we have had put upon us and I see no easy way to overcome it.”

“I have always thought it odd that it costs the taxpayer so much per capita to keep someone incarcerated. Who profits? Add to that the frequent disclosures that a crime generating, say, £100,000 results in a sentence of 12 months or so. That is a healthy 'wage' by any reckoning and suggests disparity between the judicial system and reality.

Now the UK struggles for its financial survival can we afford to maintain our general attitude of welcoming anyone and everyone to our shores and treating criminals with generosity and kindness? When will it be time to draw the line? After all, a lot of genuinely sick and disabled are now finding they have lost benefits on which they rely for survival. This is well documented, proven and the subject of a third review right now.

If we are determined to harm our own, those who live honestly amongst us and in many cases, have given so much to society already, then how much longer must we wait for someone in power to dare tackle issues such as prisons and immigration? Does anyone have the guts to actually do what most UK citizens seem to believe is the right thing?

That won't happen - because the likes of pensioners and those with incapacities are easy targets as are those with assets. It almost makes one envious of criminals and immigrants don't you think?

I will never understand how politicians have turned their roles of serving the electorate into roles of dictating what we will and will not think and do.”

“I'd be the first to agree that the system isn't perfect, but as no-one seems to know the right solution to dealing with criminals we have to carry on incarcerating them. It does need balancing, the 'do-gooders' and human rights lobbyists have a lot to answer for.”

“Foldart says;

"We gotta stop thinking that life owes us...it doesn't. We have to go out and look after ourselves. The sooner more of us do that, the better we'll all be"

So surely that should apply to those who have committed crimes against society. Do we need to fund any more than the most fundamental facilities?

If it were possible to say that no free person in the UK lives in worse conditions than the average prison in this country provides then I might be more sympathetic to your arguments but whilst we still have indiginous citizens living on the streets, homes without hot water or basic insulation, visitors to our country living in luxurious properties funded by the taxpayer and so on, then I believe our prisons deserve to be considered for cutbacks before pensioners and other taxpayers.

Just my opinion you understand”

“I'll take that as a compliment, nothalf...
We gotta stop thinking that life owes us...it doesn't. We have to go out and look after ourselves.
The sooner more of us do that, the better we'll all be.”