“Which nations "are waiting for the right Time"? - Germany, France, USA, Iceland, Argentina? They all have historical grievances against us.”

“If we do not learn from the history of the past, then the future does not look good. Boris the same could be said for most large industries, there is always dead wood. The yard has changed over the last five years, quicker than at other time in the 20+ years i have been in there. I have also worked away for civil nuclear so know what life is like outside the dockyard wall. Babcock demand their value for money, There are theats to this nation, some maybe from within, some are on a donkey. Some nations are just waiting for the right time. The impact on the local area will be terrible if these cuts happen.”

“I think the public are being grossly mislead by PCC and politicians who are already privy to the 'bigger picture' but continue to fish for easy support voicing trite soundbites. There is indeed a bigger picture and as I've said many times - the scaling down of Devonport dockyard has been mooted for many years. In '95 (I think) Flag officer Plymouth got his draft chit. Portland was wrapped up for BOST etc and Haslar was binned. So was Mercury and a few other places such as Dryad which was re-roled. There has been major re-structuring in the RN the past decade - on a similar scale to what is proposed for Devonport. Other local economies have already taken the hit.
FOST is still widely regarded as a worldwide standard in maritime ops training. Huge amounts of money from foreign navies and NATO is incoming. It's a cash cow. Devonport is ideal to become a centre to expand on that. As well as the nuclear fleet. The problem is though - too many people hear the N word and get all worked up without having the faintest idea what they are talking about. That sort of ignorance will turn Guzz into Rosyth in no time.

The MOD is going through "a phase". The future will be more purple as opposed to the current green / grey and blue. Tri-service will slowly be imposed on us whether we like it or not. The only expertise I have witnessed in Devonport workmanship is from maybe the signwriters. The sooner local councillors accept Plymouth's economy needs to shift from the dockyard's current roles, instead of flogging dead horses for ignorant votes, the better.

Too be really controversial...I'd say about 20% of the various workforces within the yard are incapable of producing even minimum wage standard output. For many it's just been years of easy money, fiddling timesheets and crimping in chacons and deck lockers - waking only when the naafi opens at stand easy.”

“Mrs M.

I do like a well written article and yours was excellent.

As ever, my point of view will revert to the total lack of foresight of PCC (and that means any party who has been in power) to ensure a more widely based economic structure to Plymouth.

This would have meant that the Dockyard was a part, not an important part, of the economic structure of the city.

I think there is a growing realisation that dependency on Devonport was and is misplaced.

The reason Plymouth does not attract from outside or develop from inside is the poor infrastructure.

I rent out a holiday place and business people from London love the area - but to a person they say - it is too far from London, takes too long.

There are people screaming to get down here to create wealth but Plymouth has to have a M-way link and a good airport.

boris, i think you asked me about graduate nurses in a previous article. The answer was YES - boy they love the paperwork (not toilet paperwork).”

“@ Boris Napper

Thank you for your comment, however, I knew and understood that the plans weren't for complete closure merely a "streamlining exercise" that all governments seem so very fond of these days, I was simply responding to the impression that was given in the poorly written (and pinched) article by the lazy reported responsible for it that it was for total and complete closure. We all know how fond they are at the Herald for sensationalising first and accurately and impartially reporting later.”

“The people of Rosyth once held the same opinion of matelots as a significant number of Plymothians. They later learned that the business of the armed forces is not to primarily support the civilian economy.

Devonport dockyard has been resting on it's laurels for far too long - the "Spanish practices" therein are responsible for millions of pounds per annum going astray.

Mrs M, Good comments but - You assume the plan was for complete closure. This is incorrect. Many facets will still remain in place but the queues for the newspaper wagon will be a lot shorter.”

“There are pros and cons to both sides of this story, however, as stated by another commentator, should a story plagerised by the lazy reporter responsible for it, from a national newspaper's "apparent rumours" and "proposed cuts" be taken as read?

I joined the Royal Navy 10 years ago, my husband is still serving and, many of his friends and colleagues have been serving for longer and since we all joined up there have been rumours that Devonport Dockyard will be shut down. This is unfounded for several reasons

1. It was reported in "The Sun" - well, it must be true then

2. There aren't the facilities to pick up the slack if Devonport was shut down and it's fleet downsized. Faslane doesn't have the space being too long and narrow and surrounded by protected land that it is not permissable to build on. Portsmouth doesn't have the space to expand having the commercial port attached to it, being surrounded by listed buildings and facilities and having the city built right up to it. Rosyth doesn't have the infrastructure to support that level of extra personnel and equipment

3. Devonport is currently the only dockyard with the facilties to refit nuclear subs.

I understand the objections and protestations that people have towards this facility and share many of them myself, but, like it or not they are based here and there is nothing we can do about it now. Besides, in today's political and security climate the government, no matter how inept at their jobs, are not stupid enough to get rid of this part of the fleet as they are one of our best defences against the world wide terror threat as it stands today.

Devonport is a demonstrably poorly run establishment with waste and profligacy in all it's forms, but Plymouth is and always has been a naval town and her citizens should start supporting her service personnel and they function they perform instead of naysaying the bases and facilities that enable them to do it.

People perhaps don't realise that service personnel do not make policy, they are merely the instruments of it. The civil service and ministries are responsible for that.

There have been rumours they'll get rid of Devonport for the past 25 years and, it's still here. No matter how badly it is administered, the powers that be are highly unlikely to remove an establishment that has unique attributes quite unlike any provided by the other naval bases in the UK.

As an after thought, perhaps politicians should take another 5% paycut to reduce their basic MP salary to £55/60,000 pa and pay for their M & S lunches themselves instead of putting it all on expenses.”

“Ian, Plymouth: If there is another war to "Wake us up!", as you put it, where will you be? Sat at home, hiding behind your computer screen, bleating, or on the front line? My bet is the former.
Also, how are you so sure that if there was a repeat of the 1982 Falklands war, we'd lose? Just where are you getting your information from and what are you basing your assumptions on? Are you some sort of military expert? Have you ever served in the military? (And by serving, I don't mean completing basic training, then discovering you don't like it and slapping your notice in or PVR-ing! I mean serving some real time! I joined up in 1987, and I'm still in!) I don't think so! You are most likely some sad little non-entity, spouting your opinions to anyone stupid enough to listen and "bigging" yourself up, because you have nothing in your sad little life, and have achieved the square root of s*d all.”

“So we start with "According to claims in a national newspaper yesterday", which is lazy journalism,copying someone else's unsubstantiated story.Then as the article progresses the "Apparent" rumours seems to morph into supposed fact,even worse.
Then at the end the Navy refuse to comment,so why did the Herald run this non-story?
There are people working the Yard,their families,local businesses e.t.c. worried about the future and the Herald running scare stories they've lifted from someone else's scare story dosn't do anyone any favours.”

“In 1982 with much luck the UK barely managed to reclaim the Falkland Islands. A scenario which I am sure if occurred today we would not be able to repeat.
I say to the Government CUT and be DAMNED.
To call the current Navy a Fleet is little short of a joke, a Flottilla would be more appropriate.
This country will never learn it is too old and senile.
Perhaps another war is needed to WAKE IT UP!”