End-of-life row 'causes public fear'

“@kimbo54
Kitobi has acknowledged that the LCP has been misused in he past, so there isn't any need to keep on about that issue, we get it.

As for the great NHS conspiracy to record all patients' complaints (of which there must be thousands upon thousands) and cross-reference those complaints with every new admission in order to get 'payback', well it does sound far-fetched.

Lets say for the sake of fair debate that what you say is true, the NHS are well known for their cover up tactics where whistleblowers are concerned after all, and they often close ranks in the face of lawsuits, so could they be conspiring against complainants?

If they are then what are we supposed to do? People will always complain if a loved one is being neglected whether they are scared of repercussions or not. You cannot just stand by and watch your parent/loved one be treated badly. PALS is where you go to for help because that's all avaliable to you, and when upset/desperate, you'll use any means in the hope of pleading your case to sympathetic ears.
If the option is as you say, report and complain to PALS and get a 'black mark' for it, or do nothing and watch every day as your relative dies a slow painful death, what would you do? I don't believe you'd do nothing.
So unfortunately, you have to trust the NHS to do what's right because that's all there is, thanks for the tip but it won't change things.

To close, I'd like to share that I complained bitterly about my Dads' care when he was admitted with a broken ankle yet died within five weeks of hospital contracted pneumonia. Consultants, nurses, PALS, management, I made myself a complete thorn in their side, yet three weeks ago I was admitted for surgery, and couldn't have been treated better, recovery was quick, in fact the next day I was sat on the ward commenting on this site, my only complaint was the food, which was inedible. No repercussions from many complaints I'd officially made about my Dads' treatment.
A little mistrust can sometimes be useful perhaps when negotiating the best care for a loved one, but outright paranoia can never be shown lest it alienates those in charge into dismissing you as a fool.
I hope if one day, you are in need of the NHS to save your life or nurse you through a bad illness, that you're treated fairly and made well.”

“When you make a formal complaint you have to complete a form and give your details before they will investigate. This then goes to a complaints department and this information goes on your file. Confidential yes! Do doctors and nurses have access to this confidential file? YES!
I know that the nurses are too busy to go and get someone's file and make a note and I never said that every conversation was recorded. I am aware that there are some very good nurses and doctors on very good wards, but I am also very aware of the opposite and until this is exposed by the press, patients, and relatives nothing will change. Why doesn't Derriford hospital look at the well run wards and implement that right across the board.
I also know that patients and relatives are afraid to complain while the patient is in hospital because they are afraid of the comeback from staff members.
PALS is meant to operate as you describe but unfortunately it doesn't.
The press are not scare mongering they are exposing the truth. All these people who have complained about the LCP saying that they were not informed are all lying are they ?, and the only people telling the truth are the Hospital staff.
You might not like what is being said but I can assure you it's the truth.
If your ward is as good as you say let me know what ward and I will make sure my relatives can be admitted there.”

“@ kimbo

yes i agree with soultoucher
i work at the hospital, we dont keep records of every conversation, serious incidents to get recorded in the patients notes, these notes are highly confidential and only used when pertinent to the ongoing care of the patient and only viewable to people who have a direct need to view the notes. when the patient eventually dies ( as we all do) the notes also get destroyed some years after at a set date.
no one keeps a grudge or keeps your name, your lucky if after a few weeks they even remember relatives, because simply we see so many people every single day unless they are very striking you do get forgotten very quickly.
it sounds like you have had a bad personal experience, i would recomment speaking to the PALS service at derriford, they are a advocate service who will always work on your behalf, deal with complaints and gather information.
of course with an organisation this huge you will always get a few bad eggs, but thankfully due to a good HR service and vigilant colleagues they never last long in this business.

i think in the past yes the LCP was used without formal consent, or if consent was gained the person giving consent may not have been documented well, if later challenged you had no backup as to who agreed LCP should commence.

i would be very very suprised now if anyone goes onto the LCP without either the patient or a close relative agreeing. and i know on the wards i cover if anyone needs LCP care that 100% of the time the family is always consulted and consent gained once they know the full info on the LCP and its benefits not only to the patient but the relatives as well.”

“@kimbo
I don't believe your comment that the NHS somehow keep on file the fact that you've complained. Whos file? How do they know who you are? What if you're an in-law with a different surname? They're so rushed off their feet, who fetches the file? who makes an entry in it?
Sorry, but the logistics of such an event don't work.

Apart from that, I do believe that the LCP has unfortunately been abused in a number of cases.
It appears that the way to deal with it should the LCP be suggested for a family member, is to keep asking questions as to each decision and insist on involvement at each stage. This is how they say it is done anyway, so you're within your rights.
The people who are alone, no family/friends are the ones most likely to be subject to abuse I think. It shouldn't be like that but probably is.”

“Do you really believe they don't put it on your file when you have made a complaint? Do you really believe that they follow the strict guidelines? Well let me tell you they don't. I know this from personal experience that the doctors and nurses do not follow the guide line sand are dishonest when challenged. You are Very naive if you truly believe your statement.”

“the LCP is designed to support people in the last few days of life, its a fantastic tool that can be implemented at anytime and can follow the individual into the community leaving hospital, it gives a clear structure of care and clear indications when certains steps should be taken to minimise suffering and distress. your going to be near end of life to be even considered for the LCP so its not utilised for just any one who happens to visit the hospital

im more concerned that 2/3 of patients are not on the LCP who die in hospital.

kimbo the NHS dosent euthanise, and they certainly are not going to recognise you 10 years down the line, its not a mafia group who remember people to punish you, if you have concerns than ask, these scare mongering press stories are just feeding on a history of ignorance and fear that can be minimised through information and education.”

“I don't believe the press are making the public wrongly fearful. The press needed to highlight and inform people about this issue because it is being abused. I know for a fact that Derriford Hospital put patients on the Liverpool care plan without consulting the patient or the patient's relatives and patients are placed on the LCP without consent. It's disgusting, it a form of euthanasia. The fact is when our loved ones go into hospital we trust these people to take care of our loved ones, but the truth is they are not to be trusted. Most people are afraid to complain because they know their family and themselves will probably end up there as some point in their lives and are afraid of being mistreated for their actions.”