Plymouth Bomber Command veteran says clasp is not worth metal it's on.

“Bomber Command crews were young men "doing their duty". They had seen their own cities bombed, and wanted to get back at the enemy. Decisions re target bombing vs precision bombing were made way above their level - and how precise was precision bombing with 1940s technology anyway? They risked their lives, and almost one half of those that got into a bomber either didn't come back, or came back wounded. If you are a student of history and wish to re-write how we won WWII, that's your right, but don't deny these now old men a medal for doing what many posters here wouldn't have the balls to do.”

“..'But Winston Churchill "snubbed" them in what has been referred to as a political move'..

Yeah political-correctness was around even then.
Churchill also felt humiliated because he thought mass bombing would end the war but it didn't. He should have gone in for precision strikes against factories instead, rather than waste bomber crews lives knocking down houses”

“Yes civilians were killed, it was war, and war is a messy, bloody business.

there is a big difference between a few unavoidable civilian deaths from people being in the wrong place at the wrong time, killed by mistake, killed as collateral damage etc......and willingly knowingly on purpose dropping a weapon of mass destruction on a city KNOWING it will cause unimaginable pain suffering and death to every single civilian living in that city at the time.

Not only that but seeing the destruction and then doing it AGAIN to another city.

Thats not war, thats not heroic, thats an act of cowardice and one that is every bit the equal of the holocaust and the other atrocities committed by the axis forces at the time.

I guess ill leave it at that, you and I will never aggree you see civilian life in a war as expendable, I dont, nuff said.”

“No I `haven't been liking in a cave, and yes the situation in the Middle East is far from satisfactory as to the treatment of the Palestinians yes the Israelis are guilty of many acts of aggression, but it has to be remembered that the Israelis are in a survival situation, they have been since the state of Israel was formed they have no allies in the area and are faced on all their land borders by potentially hostile neighbours who would like nothing more than to wipe them out, so its probably a good thing that they have a hard line government.

No I was not around when the atomic bomb was dropped on Japan, but I have read very widely on the subject and the of opinion of many highly qualified historians is that the right decision was made at the time. Yes civilians were killed, it was war, and war is a messy, bloody business.

Nobody in their right might wants war, but sometimes it's unavoidable, when it happens it always costly in human suffering.

You should remember the generation who fought in the and ultimately won the Second World War provided you with the right for free speech you are using now.

I note you seem to be anti American, but that it another argument entirely.”

“`As for Israel, yes they are a threat to peace in the Middle East, but I don't see them as unstable as Iran, or as militarily posturing as North Korea. They do have nuclear capabilities, but they are politically stable


Have you been living in a cave? as for stability just look at the Palestinian situation, as for politically stable? there government is filled with hardcore Zionists who would be quite happy to see Iran nuked off the map, as for militarily posturing they threaten those around them a hell of a lot more then those around them threaten them.......of course while committing countless human rights abuses on the Palestinian people......but hey its ok when a `friend` of the united states abuses people eh?

As for the atomic bomb situation im curious as to how you know there was no other solution? I doubt you were around at the time somehow, and I doubt all the more you were possessed of the information needed to make such a statement......of course we`ll never know if there was any other course of action on the table because as per usual history is written by the winners.....and god help anyone who dares criticize the tactics of said winners! as im finding out here haha

Maybe I have differing morals to yourself but in my eyes the slaughter of hundreds of thousands of civilians in an unimaginable way (many dying not from the blast but from horrific radiation burns in the aftermath) is not justifiable under ANY circumstances. The atomic bomb to me was an horrific act of genocide on a peoples simply because they happened to be born into an enemy country, many of them in fact most of them seeing as the fighting force was made up of adult males were women and children.....and this is justifiable for you? even to end a war? that doesnt fly my friend, if the allies hadnt run out winners the axis powers would have been quite within there rights to put those behind such a bomb and its dropping on trail in the same way we did the nazi leadership for there own human rights abuses and acts of genocide.”

“Lashius, unfortunately in war terrible decisions do have to be taken and the dropping of the atomic bombs onto Japan was one of them. What has to be remembered is that thousands of Allied and Japanese had died in the fighting in the Far East and if the allies had invaded the Japanese mainland thousands more would have died many thousands of them would have been Japanese civilians.

Yes a terrible action, but a necessary one.

As for Israel, yes they are a threat to peace in the Middle East, but I don't see them as unstable as Iran, or as militarily posturing as North Korea. They do have nuclear capabilities, but they are politically stable. I do agree that western powers are one sided in support of Israel when one looks at their treatment of the Arabs in the West Bank, but they do act as a power buffer in the region.”

“Grunger.....so they killed hundreds of thousands of civilians to save thousands of troops.....doesnt sound so heroic when U put it that way does it? As for Iran etc they're only.a danger because the us etc say they are......if your talking dangerous threats to world peace the most aggressive nation in that region is actully Israel in rhetoric and actions and they are known to be nuclear armed......but then western governments back them don't they? Total hypocrisy!”

“Lashius the USA is the only country who has the military power to bring pressure on countries like Iran and North Korea to halt their aspirations for the nuclear bomb. If they do get the bomb then we are all under threat.

As for the USA being the only nation to use the nuclear bomb, they had no choice. The US military took so many casualties in taking the Pacific Islands back from the Japanese who put up a tremendous and bloody fight to keep them that they were well aware that if they had to invade the Japanese mainland they would face thousands of Allied causalities, and it should be remembered that thousands of British and Commonwealth troops were due to be sent to aid the American's with the Japanese mainland invasion so not only American lives were saved.”

“Changing the subject entirely it does make me laugh at the irony now when I see the USA threatening Iran, n Korea etc to make sure they don't devlop weapons of mass destruction, when it was the USA itself which is the only country to have ever used such a weapon against a civilian population.....for that matter used at all as an act of aggression......and now they R the ones preaching to other nations on the subject.......obviously thourght doesn't extend back to far with the people of that nation eh?”

“Campaign Medals have been awarded for all the major actions that British Military units have taken part in for many years.
It's not a question of the rights and wrongs of war. The actions of these brave men shortened the war. When the RAF bombed the industrial areas of Germany they shortened the war by cutting off the massive amounts of armaments that were being manufactored and shipped the German forces. The U.S.A.F. jointly bombed with the R.A.F. they bombed during the day we at night and yet their country has honoured them with many unit citations so why no medal for our R.A.F. heroes.

Yes all war is terrible, but we still do it today and we will carry on doing it it's in our nature. And we still honour our war heroes today so why not these brave men, it should be remembered that the average age of these men was 19 and that more than 50,000 of them died in action with thousands more suffering terrible wounds.

A lot has been written about the rights and wrongs of the Allied bombing campaign of the Germany during the Second World War, but it was necessary to carry the war to the heart of Germany to bring the conflict to an end. The bombing shortened the war and saved thousands of Allied lives.

We must honour these men with a campaign medal while there are still a few of them left to honour.”