Rule change kills car boot sales
A CRACKDOWN on markets and car boot sales in Plymouth could leave charities and Plymouth Argyle Football Club tens of thousands of pounds out of pocket.
New rules approved by the city council's Cabinet could cut the number of highly popular Stonehouse Creek car boot sales from every Saturday and Sunday to just 12 a year and limit them to 50 pitches. On a good day now they have around 100.
"This is the kiss of death for car boot sales in Plymouth," Mark King, organiser of the Stonehouse Creek sales, said.
Argyle's weekly car boot sales could be made economically unviable by a new £160 licence and rules that say no organiser or site should have more than one Sunday event in any 28-day period, spokesman Rick Cowdery said.
Under the rules, which must still be approved by the full council, Plymouth would also have the power to stop any markets in Saltash.
The city has the right to control any markets within six-and-two-thirds miles of the Pannier Market. This puts Saltash squarely in the city's sphere of control.
Saltash Conservative councillor Joe Ellison said: "We have a street market during the Regatta, but if Plymouth should attempt to stop that there would be an uproar – but it's all theoretical, isn't it? I can't see them even trying to enforce this across the Tamar."
The Stonehouse Creek sales raise up to £30,000 a year for Stonehouse Community Centre. Mr King, an Independent city councillor for St Peter and the Waterfront, said: "We've been doing this for more than 20 years and we've never had to apply for a licence.
"All our proceeds go into helping to run the community centre. We don't get any funding from anyone else.
"I'm disappointed that the city never came and spoke to us about this. We have a voluntary code that we agreed with the council a few years ago restricting what can be sold."
Rick Cowdery, of Argyle, said: "This will affect us badly." A 50-pitch limit and the £160 licence fee meant the club would make so little after staff costs that the sales would no longer be viable.
The city is moving to enforce its ancient rights in the wake of a row over unauthorised stalls on the Barbican last summer, where a long battle between the council and the organiser resulted in the market's closure.
Cabinet member Glenn Jordan said: "One of the things that's been a big problem is health and safety around car boot sales.
"It'll also reassure the public that if they buy from a car boot sale they're buying from a legitimate person."
A council spokeswoman said: "We have no intention of interfering in another local authority's jurisdiction, though there may be issues of common interest.
"Markets and car boot sales have not been adequately controlled in the past.
"We do not intend to implement the policy in a draconian manner when it comes to existing markets and car boot sales, but we will certainly be talking to the operators to satisfy ourselves that they have the appropriate public liability insurance and are running their business in a safe and legal manner."
The new policy will be introduced in September, and the council is asking current operators to give their views.
The distance of 6.6 miles between markets is established by ancient common law, dating back at least as far as the 13th century, and reckoned to be half the distance a flock of sheep could be driven in a single day.
74 Comments
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by tanya, plymouth
Sunday, June 21 2009, 7:58PM
“Has the council gone totally mad? We pay our fee, we sell our stuff, and dont say we are taking the trade from the pannier market!! If the market was cleann and inviting, people might shop in there. I am a trader, but only at the weekends, I have to do it as Ive lost ours in my fulltime job, I still have bills to pay like everyone else. There are so many people that rely on boot sales, its unfair to the sellars and the people buying. So please you nice people sitting at your desks without a care in the world, spend a thought and for once, stop thinking about how much money you are going to make, and think about your town you live in ,and its people.”
by FUTURE VOTER?, PLYMOUTH
Friday, June 12 2009, 11:43AM
“Someone in the Council apparently raked up its ancient rites over a charter dated 1440 to enforce controlling and regulating car boots!! If these ancient rites can be so strongly enforced, how can ancient convenants be conveniently overridden by greedy developers, builders and home-owners who build dwelling houses in back gardens where the convenant implies it cannot be done. I think its a case of 'as suits' where the council is concerned and obviously depends on who is pulling the strings! Or in this case, who is holding whip!”
by financial wizard, bank of england
Thursday, June 11 2009, 5:55PM
“all this should do ebay the power of good.at least the council cant limit that”
by Nick, Lee Mill
Tuesday, June 09 2009, 8:38PM
“I am glad this does not apply to Lee Mill in the South Hams, with our car boot sales on Sundays, the rule is ridiculous although as always traders spoil the fun of car boot sales,we have just started ours with the intention to help raise money for St Lukes Hospice.”
by Roger Bullock, Turnchapel
Sunday, June 07 2009, 3:47PM
“How times change! Conservatives used to be AGAINST bureaucratic interference, and FOR independent businesses.”
by K, Plymouth
Sunday, June 07 2009, 7:49AM
“What people are forgetting is you have to pay to sell your stuff.If these boot sales are on private land,what has it got to do with the council. They always got to interfere when things are running well. Better if PCC got their own house in order. I bet they abuse the system use it to their own advantage at our expense.”
by johnno, pennycomequick
Saturday, June 06 2009, 7:25PM
“I think Vivian pengelly is starting a boot sale to raise money for her doomed Life centre , she is trying to sell city bus , parts of Central park , parts of west hoe park , and a partly built lift at the hoe swimming pool”
by tony, plymouth
Saturday, June 06 2009, 11:43AM
“i agree with some things regarding carboot sales trade should not be at car boot it should be as intended use car boot items that are no longer of any use to you but can b e of use to others saves landfill sites ,so you so called councillors try and come up with a positive solution to keep your voters happy we all havent got access to public funds to do our houses up,buy tv,clean the pond,and so on so dont put the working class man down we all enjoy car boots,try and sort mp,s out before starting on normal people”
by K.T.PLYMOUTH, PLYMOUTH
Saturday, June 06 2009, 11:16AM
“You would think with public opionion so poor about M.P's Mrs Penngelly would have better things to concentrate on example take notice of the people she represents.
Car Boot sales are an excellent way to recycle unwanted goods saves on land fill.
Not everyone Mrs Penngelly gets a fat wage from the people she should be representing
AND IS NOT TIME TO LOOK FOR ANOTHER JOB.
Lets hope you are never in the possition of some families who can only afford to buy from car boot sales.”
by ex trader, plymouth
Saturday, June 06 2009, 10:50AM
“Great about time.This was passed over 10 years ago about stopping boot sellers becoming a market,but this lazy council did nothin to uphold the rules and many a market trader went under because of the traders selling on these so called bootsales.The council have something up their sleeve to start bringing up the mystery of the Royal charter,which they say doesnt exsist if you ask for a copy,but as they say it does not permit any markets within the six and two thirds mile radious.But when it was wanting tobe used to stop the supermarkets opening in PLymouth,they couldnt find it or it doesnt really exsist.BLOODY LIARS.Copensation was supposed tobe given to the market traders of plymouth if it was tobe pushed aside.I think the people of Plymouth should ask for an explaination to all this .Why can big markets like tesco and asda call themselves super markets and then became super stores.All because it should never have been aloud according to THE ROYAL CHARTER.The charter belongs to the people not the council,they are only the enforcer of the rules.Ow no cant stop the farmers markets or the euro markets doing the pannier market out of business acn they.This council use the Charter for their own gains.It was given by King James and singned in france.So that common people can take thier wares to a place of sale.If you read the first few lines,it also states that it was free to do this,no charge for a site,only a service charge.If when we were kids we remember that wed., was half day and no fish sold on a sunday and so forth.This is where it all came from.Certain things they dont want people to see are in that charter and it was displayed in the entrance of the pannier market,but went missing.A copy is suppose tobe down the records office but you cant get your hands on it.Its only old market traders like me can remember bits and peices.They have stopped saltash having a market before.It was put before the queen many years ago,because they tried to scrap it.But the queen ruled that it was to stay.The charter covers the whole of england not just plymouth,just splits up market towns for protection.Come on lets see it Mr Draffan and try and weasel your way out of its contents.As far as I can see compensation is owed to a few of us.”