Residents urge action on fence
CONFUSION over public access to fields in Widewell deepened last nights as angry residents demanded answers from the city council.
More than 80 residents attended a public meeting over the row about the legality of a fence erected by Widewell school – recently given trust status – around a large area of green land.
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DON'T FENCE US OUT: A capacity crowd follow the heated debate as residents and, bottom right, Cllr Tom Browne, make their points
Residents dispute the school's ownership of the land, saying it was once used by the school but was declared a public open space with public access rights because the school stopped using it.
Resident Mike Gibson said: "The education authority ended its relationship with the land it they said it was surplus to requirement some years ago.
"The councillors who put through the claim that the school owns it were not even Southway councillors.
Residents and local councillors claim that no documents exist to support the school's claim to it.
One angry resident said: "If it was illegally erected what would happen if it was torn down?"
Resident and chairman of the Widewell Residents Association Ted Willey said: "We are here to give power to the councillors, so they can take our opinion and represent it – if we don't try, we won't succeed."
"The council has said the school shouldn't have put the fence up and planners are looking into it – it never had planning permission."
Several residents spoke of the many years they had spent using the land for jogging, walking and playing when they grew up and said that now their children and grandchildren had nowhere to play.
Local councillor Tom Browne said: "History shows the field was for public use. There is no legal right why the school should fence it off, it has no authority.
"It is owned by Plymouth City Council – there is no right to say it is the school's."
A Plymouth City Council officer present gave no comment about the legality of the land but offered the public forms to fill in on rights of way.
No other members of the council or the school attended the meeting.
Meanwhile, Widewell residents have been dealt a further blow after an influential forum representing groups including walkers and horseriders refused to back their case.
The Plymouth Local Access Forum refused to give its formal support to the Widewell Action Group in its fight against the fence.
The forum heard that the fence was put up after the school was taken over by an educational trust last year.
Residents say that they have used the fields for generations, although the forum was told that there did not appear to be any public right of way.
The forum was urged to back the Widewell residents. But Oliver Marney, who works for Connexions and represents the views of young people, said a school should be a special case.
He said there were precedents for denying the public access to certain areas, like Vixen Tor on Dartmoor.
"Lots of schools have archery clubs," Mr Marney said. "If somebody was firing an arrow across a field and it hit a walker, whose fault would that be?"
He said there was a security issue about who would police the site once school staff had left. Ray Fairchild, the forum chairman, said there had been cases of vandalism at Eggbuckland Community College and people riding motorbikes over playing fields.
Dog-walkers had refused to leave school fields even when the children were trying to play sport.
However, he added: "If there was a public right of way I would have to support local people."
10 Comments
by Joe, plymouth
Thursday, October 09 2008, 9:29AM
“alex, i'm under the imprssion thisi s a school playing field. Was it handed over to the community? If so the documents will be clearly available to prove transfer of ownership, if PCC owned it for public use it would have had dog mess bins on years ago (and the very old private property sign removed too!)”
by Alex, Plymouth
Wednesday, October 08 2008, 9:24PM
“Alan, sorry you feel this way, but you seemed to have missed the point completely. They have not just fenced off the school but fenced the community's field, which didn't and still does not belong to them. Wake up and smell the grass, that's if the seagulls don't get in the way”
by Allan, plymouth
Wednesday, October 08 2008, 5:54PM
“Steve, its nothing to do with Trust Schools, possibly you've been misled by the NUT's anti-trust school campaign (which could be part of its general anti-govt campaign as a result of being out of all discussions regarding the future of education), big boys sulk the most!
So many schools have fences around them: Thornbury, Hele, Glen Park, College Road, Stoke Damerel, Coombe Dean to name but a few, many more plan to do so, Eggbuckland being cited as one wishing to put an 8 foot fence up (PP required over 1.8m)
Good luck in your campaign for local election, please prove to be more intelligent and thorough than Browne and see the fights worth fighting (Those where the law is on your side)”
by Steve, Widewell
Wednesday, October 08 2008, 6:58AM
“Allan we know where your loyalties lie as your school will be going for Trust status.
I agree Tom Browne and his colleges have let the community down, but that was in the past. This is happening now! This will not be the only place in Plymouth or the country this will happen. A school will become a Trust and land will disappear.
It is about time that the public stood up to Government and Local Councils. They seem to be able to do what they wish.
I'm so glad that the residents of Widewell have the guts to stand up and be counted.
It¿s so easy to just give up!
"Listening Devices", don't think so, maybe good inside information!
Stand as a Councillor,.... watch this space!!
After all we don't live in Cuba, do we???”
by allan, plymouth
Tuesday, October 07 2008, 10:17PM
“How do you know what Mrs Young says? Do you have secret listening devices? Are you a staff member? Or a twisted fool who makes things up?
If YOU were around you'd see kids out there every dry day. The parents and pupils love having a safe, clean field. The school has no legal responsibility to locals only its pupils and staff.
Find another group to pick on, I suggest reading the Daily Mail for a while, then why not stand for Councillor and do some good? At least decisions might be seen through to a conclusion rather than mucked up by idiots like Browne.
PS, anyone know any good politician called Brown/Browne?”
by Paul, Widewell
Tuesday, October 07 2008, 6:53PM
“11.8 hectars / 200 pupils, used once a week (and that's being generous!) if the weather's fine, smacks of gluttony and greed. Give the community what they want Mrs Young and stop bullying your pupils and staff who want to attend these meetings!”
by Joe, Plymouth
Tuesday, October 07 2008, 2:51PM
“How long are these moaners going to go on about it? It's like kids at the sweet counter, can I have, can I have, can I have.... Just realise you can't have what's not and has never been yours!
birds, cats and fox poo! is that the best you can come up with! know when you've lost, keep some dignity!
Cllr Browne has nothing to lose, he's claimed he's retiring (in the mysterioulsy vanished article about lap dancing and his desire to go to a club before retiring), he's attacked Dartmoor Rescue for being on the school grounds, his political party divroced themsleves from him prior to his comments on Radio Devon. move over old man and let the new generations have their say, who knows they migth even want a skate park in North Plymouth? Have you asked them Cllr Browne?”
by Steve, Widewell
Tuesday, October 07 2008, 7:07AM
“Jonathan you are missing the point.
The school was already fenced off from Joe Public.
The children will now get excrement from cats, foxes and birds that also use the field as a toilet. There are no owners to clean up after them. Toxoplasmosis is carried by all warm blooded mamals not just dogs.
The field was used by the community as well not just dog walkers. If dog walkers need to be banned then so be it, but give it back to the community.
The school does not own the land Plymouth City Council do.
This Goverment has not just let this community down, but the country.”
by angela, Plymouth
Tuesday, October 07 2008, 7:04AM
“Jonathan I couldn't agree more,”
by Jonathan, Plymouth
Tuesday, October 07 2008, 6:33AM
“I have to say this is terrible... Let the school get on with its business. Anyone with children at the school should be pleased that random Joe Public can't get access to their children now as a result of this fence. Surely that is the primary, and in fact ONLY concern about this fence... It actually serves a great purpose in protecting children from unscrupulous people.
Secondly, the fence stop dog walkers taking their animals onto the grass. I don't want my children playing in their school fields that are covered in dog excrement or even the wipings that are left smeared over the grass when someone has picked up the mess with a plastic bag.
Time to get over it local residents and back the school for being so aware of the needs of their own pupils!!!!”